From kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:41 PDT 1996 Article: 54203 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!newshub.internex.net!newshub1.internex.net!viper.inow.com!ns1.aplatform.com!ns2.mainstreet.net!bug.rahul.net!rahul.net!a2i!genmagic!sgigate.sgi.com!esiee.fr!jussieu.fr!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.cts.com!crash!ebbs!kelly.cowan Newsgroups: talk.environment Subject: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? From: kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 May 96 07:23:00 PST Organization: The Environmental BBS, San Diego, CA Lines: 34 To all: This post is a request for an honest opinion about law enforcement and justice without personal opinions regarding mountain lion hunting and prop 197. The news reported this morning that a man in Texas may be EXTRADITED to California for threatening Senator Tim Leslie (author of prop 197) over the internet. If you recall, some guy said the Senator should be hunted down and skinned alive on either this newsgroup or talk.politics.animals. Those of us who thought it was an inappropriate post told the man so. Perhaps some punishment or investigation is in order, but never before in the history of net threats has anything like this happened. But do you think that spending tax dollars to EXTRADITE him is an appropriate punishment? Is it fair to the taxpayers that the FBI spend money on this when they were reluctant to even take out the electriciti for weeks at the Freemen Compound? My own opinion is that the Senator deserves no special preference in justice like this. People are threatened every day in Claifornia-face to face, and the police usually don't arrest, but if they do, he person is out within hours. These are legitimate threats and not issued during emotional political campaigns. Californians would be up in arms if their tax money was being used to extradite an internet user for threatening another person in another state during a divorce or something. Why extradition? Extradition is for drug dealers and unabombers. Isn' this a little ridiculous and political? That's REGARDLESS of where you stood on the issue of prop 197. kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com From bell@morpheus.cis.yale.edu Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54167 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ycc.yale.edu!morpheus!bell From: bell@morpheus.cis.yale.edu (Peter Bell) Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: 28 May 1996 18:18:35 GMT Organization: Yale University Lines: 65 Message-ID: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: morpheus.cis.yale.edu Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54167 talk.politics.animals:63312 In article kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com writes: > >The news reported this morning that a man in Texas may be EXTRADITED to >California for threatening Senator Tim Leslie (author of prop 197) over >the internet. If you recall, some guy said the Senator should be hunted >down and skinned alive on either this newsgroup or talk.politics.animals. Bwhahahahahahahahah! And I'd say that whatever politician this guy was enough of a bonehead to threaten, by the bye... >Those of us who thought it was an inappropriate post told the man so. >Perhaps some punishment or investigation is in order, but never before in >the history of net threats has anything like this happened. Nope, there you are wrong. A few years back, some grad student out west said in a post words to the effect of "I'd like to see President Bush's head impaled on a pike on my front lawn." Said students' lab later received a visit from the Secret Service, who were there to investigate the threat against the President. Problem was, the student was at a professional meeting when the visitors popped up, so his labmates had to explain Usenet, posting, etc., and assure the SS boys that he had not fled to escape the investigation. Just recently, an artist in set up an "exploding heads page" on the world wide web. http://www.king.net/gilmore/head This page includes Bob Dole's head; the artist was interviewed by the Secret Service to find out if he wanted to blow up Mr. Dole's head. See http://gnn-e2a.gnn.com/gnn/wr/96/01/24/news/ndn/explode.html for more. >But do you think that spending tax dollars to EXTRADITE him is an >appropriate punishment? No, I think it's stupid. Lots of things are stupid, though. Including people who don't realize that if they stand in a public square and shout "So-and-so Must Die, *And I Want To Hasten That Happening," well, so-and-so might be within hearing distance. If that public square is designed so that in order to speak in it, you cannot see those who are hearing you, and so that the acoustics permit everyone in the world, potentially, to hear you, and leaves a variety of proofs of what you have said.... Well, don't expect me to get all upset about it when someone drops a dime on your candy ass. The only one of these people who had a legitimate beef was the exploding heads guy, which was an art project and not a statement of advocacy. In any case, I'm sure he was aware ahead of time that he might be attracting attention. If this guy who threatened the state Senator actually gets extradited, *that* will be something new and unusual. So far, he's just been stupid, and those agencies whose jobs include following up on the chronically stupid are doing what they're chartered for. -Peter bell@minerva.cis.yale.edu | http://pantheon.cis.yale.edu/~bell/bell.html "Mr. Bell...is an Ivy League pedant with an axe to grind..." "Apologize and we may continue if it suits me." Jim "Jew Genotype" Bowery endorses the thoroughness of my research. Thanks, Jim. From senator.leslie@sen.ca.gov Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54308 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.ac.net!news.cais.net!bofh.dot!sen.ca.gov!sen.ca.gov!nntp Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Message-ID: <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> From: Senator Tim Leslie Date: 29 May 96 15:57:45 -0800 References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> Distribution: world Nntp-Posting-Host: 165.107.135.137 X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.1 (Windows; U; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bell@morpheus.cis.yale.edu Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Lines: 15 Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54308 talk.politics.animals:63447 My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. When my office learned of the death threats posted by Mr. Saavedra on a news group, we contacted state law enforcement, as we do with all incidents of this nature. This was done as a matter of standard legislative policy that was developed by law enforcement representatives. At that point the matter became the sole responsibility of various law enforcement agencies. I did not file a complaint, nor did I ask that this individual be arrested. In short, I bear no responsibility for the decision to arrest Mr. Saavedra, and I have no authority over future decisions regarding his prosecution. I hope that this serves to dispel any misconceptions. From guitar@rash.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54438 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!usenet From: Rick Fisk Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 19:46:55 -0700 Organization: Rash Behavior Lines: 44 Message-ID: <31AE5D9F.3A2@rash.com> References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> Reply-To: guitar@rash.com NNTP-Posting-Host: rfisk.vip.best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) CC: Senator Tim Leslie Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54438 talk.politics.animals:63577 > My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. > Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has > generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. > > When my office learned of the death threats posted by Mr. Saavedra on a news group, > we contacted state law enforcement, as we do with all incidents of this nature. > This was done as a matter of standard legislative policy that was developed by law > enforcement representatives. At that point the matter became the sole > responsibility of various law enforcement agencies. I did not file a complaint, nor > did I ask that this individual be arrested. > > In short, I bear no responsibility for the decision to arrest Mr. Saavedra, and I > have no authority over future decisions regarding his prosecution. I hope that this > serves to dispel any misconceptions. Well then. If you really are sincere, please publicly denounce his arrest and stand up for the constitution you swore to uphold. Merely saying you have no responsibility while standing by and doing nothing is not sufficient. You are no better than any normal citizen and are afforded no special privilages due to your status as an elected official. Therefore it makes no sense to prosecute this individual. Please show that you have integrity and call for this persons immediate release. It is a waste of taxpayer money and a violation of the constitution to prosecute "thought crimes". Show us that you're for the constitution. -- Rick Fisk Rash Behavior http://www.rash.com guitar@rash.com "If somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." Diane Feinstein: Hypocrite, Senate hearings on terrorism, April 27, 1995 "If you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." Dr. Aurthur Kellerman: Liar, Hypocrite, Scientific Sham Artist, Health Magazine (March/April 1994) -------- From scarpint@gvsu.edu Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54515 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!chi-news.cic.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uwm.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!msunews!gvsu!innnews From: Tim Scarpino Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 15:13:21 -0700 Organization: The Great Outdoors Lines: 43 Message-ID: <31AF6F01.546B@gvsu.edu> References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> <31AE5D9F.3A2@rash.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.61.143.162 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win16; I) Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54515 talk.politics.animals:63650 Rick Fisk wrote: > > > My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. > > Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has > > generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. [..snip...] > > In short, I bear no responsibility for the decision to arrest Mr. Saavedra, and I > > have no authority over future decisions regarding his prosecution. I hope that this > > serves to dispel any misconceptions. > Please show that you have integrity and call for this persons immediate release. > It is a waste of taxpayer money and a violation of the constitution to prosecute > "thought crimes". Show us that you're for the constitution. Whoa Mr. Fisk. When you yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theatre, you most certainly bear some responsibilitly for the words you utter, As I understand it Mr. Saavedra, in not keeping his thoughts to himself, left himself open for criminal liability (irrespective of whether he was "joking" or not) when he wondered ALOUD on a worldwide computer network what it would be like to "hunt" down the senator, and "skin" him. Your precious defense of "free thought" rings hollow when those thoughts leave the womb of the mind, and are born into a world of governance, the rule of law, and the respect for the rights of ALL, not just the ones who might agree with you. I realize that many in the "animal rights" movement have NO trouble calling people who hunt "murderers", and those who consume animal products "animal abusers". The reliance on inflamed jargon is a hallmark of the AR movement, and now that one of its (your?) own has been held accountable for twisting the language, it seems you scream repression, when all that has happened was Mr. Saaverdra excersising his "right" to self-incrimination. Let societal justice run it's course, so that you, and other defenders of Mr. Saaverdra, will realize that "free speech" doesn't translate into freedom FROM responsibility. Tim From guitar@rash.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54547 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news1.digital.com!ames!news.larc.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!usenet From: Rick Fisk Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 16:28:12 -0700 Organization: Rash Behavior Lines: 118 Message-ID: <31AF808C.5447@rash.com> References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> <31AE5D9F.3A2@rash.com> <31AF6F01.546B@gvsu.edu> Reply-To: guitar@rash.com NNTP-Posting-Host: rfisk.vip.best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54547 talk.politics.animals:63667 Tim Scarpino wrote: > > Rick Fisk wrote: > > > > > My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. > > > Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has > > > generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. > [..snip...] > > > > In short, I bear no responsibility for the decision to arrest Mr. Saavedra, and I > > > have no authority over future decisions regarding his prosecution. I hope that this > > > serves to dispel any misconceptions. > > Please show that you have integrity and call for this persons immediate release. > > It is a waste of taxpayer money and a violation of the constitution to prosecute > > "thought crimes". Show us that you're for the constitution. > > Whoa Mr. Fisk. > > When you yell "FIRE" in a crowded movie theatre, you most certainly bear > some responsibilitly for the words you utter, Give me a break. Please show where this fellow actually threatened Mr. Leslie. > > As I understand it Mr. Saavedra, in not keeping his thoughts to himself, > left himself open for criminal liability (irrespective of whether he was > "joking" or not) when he wondered ALOUD on a worldwide computer network > what it would be like to "hunt" down the senator, and "skin" him. Ahh...It's O.K. to think about someone else killing somebody or contemplating such in private, but when you think it aloud or tell a joke...well then it becomes illegal. Dangerous Thought Crimes... Wow, there sure must be alot of ciminals out there after the O.J. Trial.. Let's see if I get arrested: It would be interesting to me had Nicole Brown Simpson possessed a handgun and used it in her own defense. O.J. would be dead now and L.A. would still have a little credibility perhaps. Perhaps N.O.W. will hire an assasin to kill O.J. while on one of his golfing trips. We'd be better off.... Now. I'm waiting to be arrested. I live in California, so I won't need to be extradited. Please also explain why I *won't* get arrested for this, but I would had we switched O.J. with Say Teddy Kennedy who got away with at the very least manslaughter. It's no wonder that politicians hate the 2nd ammendment. It is the built in constant death threat of the Constitution. Get out of line, create tyranny and be killed by "the people". I'm sure Jefferson, Franklin, and especially Patrick Henry, known for rhetoric that makes Pat Buchannons' seem mild in comparison, would be utterly amazed at the sheer ignorance and vapidity of people today who seem to think that only politically correct speach is protected by the first ammendment. > > Your precious defense of "free thought" rings hollow when those thoughts > leave the womb of the mind, and are born into a world of governance, the > rule of law, and the respect for the rights of ALL, not just the ones > who might agree with you. Fascists like you are always trtying to portray "evil thoughts unveiled" as somehow dangerous to society. The KKK, Aryan Nation, Neo-Nazis and others have said far worse. And guess what? It's perfectly legal. > > I realize that many in the "animal rights" movement have NO trouble > calling people who hunt "murderers", and those who consume animal > products "animal abusers". > > The reliance on inflamed jargon is a hallmark of the AR movement, and > now that one of its (your?) own has been held accountable for > twisting the language, it seems you scream repression, when all that has > happened was Mr. Saaverdra excersising his "right" to self-incrimination. No. I do not believe any of us have the luxury to only cry foul when it is one who is politically aligned with our own beliefs who is being persecuted. I happen to believe that for the most part, the environmental movement has fallen apart and been corrupted. This is documented to some extent by ex members of some of these groups. However, even groups who do not say things I agree with should have the right to say whatever they wish. We cannot only keep the government in check when it is our side being demonized. > > Let societal justice run it's course, so that you, and other defenders of > Mr. Saaverdra, will realize that "free speech" doesn't translate into > freedom FROM responsibility. I always fight fascism whenever I see it. Do you work for the government by any chance? > Tim -- Rick Fisk Rash Behavior http://www.rash.com guitar@rash.com "If somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." Diane Feinstein: Hypocrite, Senate hearings on terrorism, April 27, 1995 "If you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." Dr. Aurthur Kellerman: Liar, Hypocrite, Scientific Sham Artist, Health Magazine (March/April 1994) -------- From guitar@rash.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:42 PDT 1996 Article: 54442 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.kei.com!news.texas.net!nntp.primenet.com!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!usenet From: Rick Fisk Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 20:13:16 -0700 Organization: Rash Behavior Lines: 63 Message-ID: <31AE63CC.3825@rash.com> References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> Reply-To: guitar@rash.com NNTP-Posting-Host: rfisk.vip.best.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) CC: Senator Tim Leslie Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54442 talk.politics.animals:63581 Senator Tim Leslie wrote: > > My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. > Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has > generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. > > When my office learned of the death threats posted by Mr. Saavedra on a news group, > we contacted state law enforcement, as we do with all incidents of this nature. I would be interested to know how you came to the conclusion that these posts constituted "death threats". This is a rather tranparent attempt to put a more severe "spin" on the content. Inappropriate? Perhaps. "Death Threat"? Not even close. It seems to me that there has to be intent, as well as a stated goal, as opposed to merely wishing or stating that one wouldn't be opposed to the occurence. It's a good thing we didn't have the internet and the FBI around earlier... "We, the People are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts - not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution." -- Abraham Lincoln The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun." -- R. Buckminster Fuller "With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but with tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will be certainly be lost." -- William Lloyd Garrison "It is not the function of our government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the government from falling into error." -- Justice Robert H. Jackson "The tree of liberty must be refreshed every so often with the blood of tyrants." ---paraphrase of Thomas Jefferson -- Rick Fisk Rash Behavior http://www.rash.com guitar@rash.com "If somebody was going to try to take me out, I was going to take them with me." Diane Feinstein: Hypocrite, Senate hearings on terrorism, April 27, 1995 "If you've got to resist, you're chances of being hurt are less the more lethal your weapon. If that were my wife, would I want her to have a .38 Special in her hand? Yeah." Dr. Aurthur Kellerman: Liar, Hypocrite, Scientific Sham Artist, Health Magazine (March/April 1994) -------- From cryzzia@aol.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:43 PDT 1996 Article: 55447 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!news-e2a.gnn.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: cryzzia@aol.com (CRYZZIA) Newsgroups: talk.environment Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: 8 Jun 1996 20:06:09 -0400 Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Lines: 13 Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com Message-ID: <4pd4hh$ajo@newsbf02.news.aol.com> References: <31AE63CC.3825@rash.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader In article <31AE63CC.3825@rash.com>, Rick Fisk writes: >The tree of liberty must be refreshed every so often with the blood >of tyrants." > ---paraphrase of Thomas Jefferson ...I know--if Thomas Jefferson was alive today, can you *imagine* what he would have gone through? After all, "forefather" or not, I can't imagine the FBI/CIA being all too thrilled with a charismatic leader, who just happens to advocate a bloody revolution every twenty years to "keep the government responsible to the people." ~Tasha From robocop@aug.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:43 PDT 1996 Article: 54516 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!spool.mu.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!bofh.dot!arclight.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!jaxnet.jaxnet.com!news From: Jim Bragg Newsgroups: talk.environment,talk.politics.animals Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mammal? Date: 31 May 1996 22:40:45 GMT Organization: Southeast Network Services, Inc. Lines: 32 Message-ID: <4onshd$48h@jaxnet.jaxnet.com> References: <4ofg1r$kcp@news.ycc.yale.edu> <1996May29.155746.200@sen.ca.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: ts2-26.aug.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 1.2N (Windows; I; 32bit) To: senator.leslie@sen.ca.gov Xref: nntp.Stanford.EDU talk.environment:54516 talk.politics.animals:63652 Senator Tim Leslie wrote: >My name is Tim Leslie and I am a California State Senator. The recent arrest of Mr. >Jose Saavedra, who is being charged with making death threats against me, has >generated a great deal of misunderstanding and misinformation on the Internet. > >When my office learned of the death threats posted by Mr. Saavedra on a news group, >we contacted state law enforcement, as we do with all incidents of this nature. >This was done as a matter of standard legislative policy that was developed by law >enforcement representatives. At that point the matter became the sole >responsibility of various law enforcement agencies. I did not file a complaint, nor >did I ask that this individual be arrested. > >In short, I bear no responsibility for the decision to arrest Mr. Saavedra, and I >have no authority over future decisions regarding his prosecution. I hope that this >serves to dispel any misconceptions. > Senator, Why in the world are you apoligizing for some nut getting arrested for breaking the law? Heck, you should be greatful that Law Enforcement Officers are doing thier job protecting the citizens, even if they are senators. :-) In short Senator Leslie, stand up and support the enforcement of laws that are on the books. If you don't like a law, or feel it is a bad law then introduce legislation to change or eliminate it. Never apoligize for being a victim. The responsibility for ones actions belong to that individual, and that individual alone. Lets stop putting the blame on everyone or everything else and get back to taking responsibility for what we do. Jim Bragg From kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com Sun Jun 9 21:53:43 PDT 1996 Article: 54558 of talk.environment Path: nntp.Stanford.EDU!news.Stanford.EDU!agate!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!newshub.cts.com!crash!ebbs!kelly.cowan Newsgroups: talk.environment In-Reply-To: scarpint@gvsu.edu Subject: Re: Tim Leslie--Specially protected mamm From: kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 May 96 21:27:00 PST Organization: The Environmental BBS, San Diego, CA Lines: 26 Tim, What if your hatred for animal rtights activists prompted someone to commit a violent crime against one? Shall you be held reponsible for your denigrating comments? What if a child saw a gay couple kissing, and became a gay person? Would the couple be responsible? What if you taught your child to kill rattlesnakes, and he was bit in the process of hunting one down? Would you then be liable for the child's death? What if you urged your legislator to allow toxic waste near a human-inhabited are and people died as a result? Would you be liable? The answer is no. You would be guilty of ignorance, but not a crime. The person who "threatened" the special-interest Senator did state that he would not skin the guy, but wouldn't mind if someone else did. If you were to hang him by his feet and attempt to skin him, the animal rights people would probably be the first to jump in and save him, since he is an animal like the rest of us. People say things in the heat of the moment, whether it be passion, sadness, anger, or any other emotion. It is called emotion for a reason. I recognoize the statement made was made in anger, and we have all said things like that- don't even try to lie and say you haven't said somethiong similar yourself. Kelly.cowan@ebbs.cts.com